Educational Advisory Committee Minutes March 25, 2004

Meeting between IBM and CSU held at IBM Boulder

The meeting opened at 9:00/9:10? a.m. with the attendees introducing themselves.

Attendees from Colorado State University (CSU) at Ft. Collins, CO:

Scott Webb - University Advancement
Prof. Michael A. De Miranda - School of Education and ISTeC EAC Co-Chairman
Prof. Derek Lile - Electrical and Computer Engineering (former chair)
Prof. Cap Smith - Computer Information Systems (School of Business)
Prof. Sanjay Rajopadehye - Computer Science, Electrical Engineering and ISTeC RAC Chairman
Sandra Dailey - Graduate School

Attendees from the IBM Boulder site located at 6300 Diagonal Hwy, Boulder, CO:

Dr. Bradford Brooks, Distinguished Engineer, Corporate (Toxology)
Jay Smith, Software Engineer, Printing Systems Division,
Dr. Joan L. Mitchell, IBM Fellow, Printing Systems Division

The following were unable to attend, but expect to participate in the future:

Prof. Darrell Whitley - Chairman Department of Computer Science
Prof. Hari Iyer, Dept of Statistics + distance education program
Prof. H.J. Siegel, Computer Science and Electrical and Computer Engineering
Victor Walker, IBM SDF e-business Strategy & Architecture

This was the first meeting of the Information Science and Technology Center (ISTeC) Educational Advisory Committee (EAC) task group co-chaired by Joan L. Mitchell, IBM, and Mike De Miranda, CSU, created at the February 13, 2004 ISTeC meeting at CSU.

Jay Smith, IBM Software engineer, who is in the process of applying to CSU graduate school shared some of his experiences. He had to leave part way through the meeting in order to attend Prof. H.J. Siegel's class at CSU. Jay attended HJ's Boulder Technical Vitality Council sponsored lecture on "Robust Resource Allocation in Computing Systems" at IBM on January, 13, 2004. Jay also went to the round table that followed the talk. He promptly started attending HJ's CSU class and that is what inspired him to apply for graduate school at CSU.

Appendix A captures some of the discussion and comments made during (and in some cases after) the meeting. It was noted that the admissions are done at the department level. Having a department professor as an advocate makes it much easier to tailor the requirements to the professional's individual situation. Credit can be given for past work experience in some cases. Also the distance learning classes in one department can often be applied towards the requirements of another department if relevant. Everyone was interested in knowing what courses should be on-line.

Appendix B reproduces the handout generated by Joan to capture some of her correspondence and thoughts on this topic. She made it clear to the group that she was representing her own opinions, but intended to use the group results to make some recommendations to IBM.

The group agreed to the following mission statement for the ISTeC EAC task group: Examine CSU Department and Graduate School requirements and make recommendations for additional flexibility to better meet the needs of IBM-sponsored professionals retraining and completing advanced degrees.

The first step will be a pilot where CSU professors from CS, ECE, College of Business, School of Education, Math, and Statistics (as needed other departments can be added) will be hosted by Joan L. Mitchell to give a technical talk about their research and stay for a roundtable discussion if there is sufficient demand. The professors will have an interest in meeting bright potential students. They will be able to re-direct students to other professors if the interests would make a better match. Joan committed to pay the first six speakers honorariums of $100 each. The talks will take place at IBM about once a month (skipping the summer months).

The CSU attendees left with Joan the following promotional and program information about graduate degree programs and certificate programs in their departments related to IS&T:

CSU Graduate & Professional Bulletin 2003-2004
Master's Degree CIS, Intro to the program
Master of EE and Computer Engineering, Online Distance Education, emphasis in Telecommunications
MS Computer Science, 100% Online Degree
CSU Distance MBA packet with lots of brochures

The meeting adjourned at 11:30 a.m.

Appendix A. Additional comments and information exchanged during or after the meeting.

On the topic of GREs: The GREs have been used to show the student's commitment. At one time is was a requirement for all graduate schools. That is no longer true, but some departments have been slow to remove the requirement. Joan expressed that GREs can discourage full-time students from even considering enrolling in a degree program.

Fixed Application Dates: Actually it is OK to enroll up to two weeks after classes start.

Start to finish maximum time: In this rapidly changing world, the information taught in class can become stale. It is an incentive to move students along who would otherwise drag their feet.

Class attendance requirements: This is decided by each professor who has the flexibility to set the requirements for his own classes. Most professors are flexible particularly when it comes to necessary business trips. Working professionals need to make arrangements with their professors before enrolling so that there will be no misunderstandings.

Corporate-sponsored professionals: IBM has an acknowledged strong vetting process and would only sponsor professionals who are expected to contribute to the business and have a strong likelihood of future success. The university must apply its rules uniformly. Not all corporations would be sending people with a demonstrated strong track record (e.g. owners of failing start-ups). The graduate school of admissions would not be able to know that every corporate sponsored applicant has been properly vetted.

Institutional culture: The university is built on the assumption that face-to-face is the preferred instruction mode. Graduate students have traditionally provided inexpensive labor to work on research. Full-time working professions who are conducting their research off-campus will affect the culture. Where will the value come from so that after years of mentoring the students leave as capable junior scientists. Brad Brooks commented that today's industrial professionals have become accustomed to remote (e.g. e-mail, same-time, conference calls, etc) interactions and team work.

Master's theses are recommended if a student expects to write a Ph.D. thesis.

The Doctorate of Interdisciplinary Studies lists the specialization areas. Although arranged through the School of Education, it does not necessarily produce an Doctorate of Education.

The STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) program takes only three semesters for professionals with degrees in STEM areas to obtain teachers credentials.

The Business School can deliver on-site courses if 50 people (maybe 35-40?) are committed to obtain their MBAs. The Business School already offers an distance MBA (see list of information left at IBM). If the group needs a "themed" MBA (e.g. Life sciences+ MBA), this can be arranged.

Appendix B. Handout generated by Joan L. Mitchell to provide a basis for some discussion. Not all topics were covered.

IBM and Colorado State University Meeting

IBM Boulder, CO
March 25, 2004

3/25/04 draft prepared by Joan L. Mitchell
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Attendees from CSU, Ft. Collins, CO:

Scott Webb - University Advancement
Prof. Michael A. De Miranda - School of Education & ISTeC EAC Co-Chair
Prof. Derek Lile - ECE
Prof. Cap Smith - Computer Information Systems
Prof. Sanjay Rajopadehye - CS, EE & ISTeC RAC Chair
Prof. Darrell Whitley - Chair Dept. of CS
Sandra Dailey - Graduate School

***********************************
Attendees from IBM Boulder:

Bradford Brooks, Distinguished Eng., Corporate (Toxology)
Jay Smith, SW Eng., Printing Systems Division,
Joan L. Mitchell, IBM Fellow, Printing Systems Division

Unable to attend, but wants to be included:

Victor Walker - SDF e-business Strategy & Architecture

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Extracts from Mike De Miranda's original CSU note about today's meeting:

"meeting with Joan Mitchell from IBM at Boulder, to discuss their needs
in the area of graduate education for their professional employees. ...
Joan ... has agreed to chair a committee to seek solutions to
educational expansion opportunities for IBM employees to study at CSU.
... information meeting. ...Joan will present an
overview of the needs and types of IS&T educational programs they seek to
be involved with."

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JLM call to IBMers for this meeting:

Subject
Fw: Report on IBM Meeting

The CSU people are coming to talk to us about the needs of industry for
re-training professionals. I call it "moving people up the value chain".
Jay Smith (applying to CSU now), Brad Brooks, and I are definitely
attending. ...

P.S. They understand that this is not an official IBM position. I'm
co-chair with Mike DeMiranda of a CSU ISTeC advisory committee on the
topic. This meeting will be primarily to understand the requirements and
needs of the graduate program at CSU and industry.

***********************************
From a different JLM note to IBMers:

"Welcome to the IBM meeting to be held tomorrow March 25th from 9-11 on
the Boulder site in Conference Room 105 (Bldg 1). I want to be sure
that you are all aware that I have agreed to co-chair a task group under
ISTeC. However, I will be representing my own opinions. I plan to use
the results of our task group to make some recommendations to IBM."

***********************************

From Joan L. Mitchell's 2003 Fellow Report:

"Towards the end of 2003 I became convinced that we need IBMers to
complete technical degrees. I believe that schools of higher education
need to recognize that returning professionals should not be treated like
children. When they bring their own money, the rules should be easy to
bend. Degree programs should be flexible about course work requirements
(assuming competency is demonstrated by passing exams). Length of time
restrictions between starting a masters and finishing a PhD should be
dropped if the professional paused his/her schooling in order to raise a
family or work full time. This will help us move our talented people,
laid off workers, and even retirees up the value chain."

***********************************

Note from a friend about IBM retraining:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/35945.html

***********************************

Dr. Ray Morrison
Provost for the Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Technical Institute &
Mgr for Engineering Workforce Development at the Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co.

American Society for Engineering Education (ASEE) where he has served on two
separate occasions as a Director and Board Member for the Continuing
Professional Development Division (CPD). He is currently Chair-Elect
for the CPD Division (2003) and serves on the Corporate Management
Council (CMC).

"Do you want to talk to ASEE CPD graduate school (?) committee?"

***********************************
Satisfaction vs. Loyalty:

Satisfaction: How happy were you with the job we did?

Loyalty: How happy will you be to have us do your next job?

JLM suggestion to industry: Instead of laying off highly valued
employees, pay tuition and health insurance so they can afford to go
back to school to retrain themselves.

***********************************

e-mail from JLM sent Jan. 21, 2004
To: a VP at IBM Research

Subject Completing educational degrees

... The subject that I wanted to discuss with you has to do with ...
encouraging universities to lower barriers to professionals completing
their degrees.

Some current thoughts on the subject:

Categories:
1. Full-time working professionals with corporate sponsorship.-
may have business interrupt their ability to be on campus.
2. Unemployed professionals (recently laid-off?) who are able to
go to school full-time and be on campus as needed.
3. Retirees who may be switching fields to pursue their passion,
possibly in a different field - able to be on campus as needed.

Barriers:
1. Taking GREs (cost, time, pressure) - Waive.
2. Applying by January for starting next Fall - Allow students
with money to enter at anytime.
3. Must complete Masters and PhD within six years from start of
masters. -- Waive (already done if Masters done at a different
university)
4. Class attendance - allow maximum flexibility if material
mastered e.g. take quizzes ahead of schedule if business trip scheduled.

***********************************

Edited note from engineer choosing between two departments for PhD program:

Subject: Dept. A or B for the application

Joan,
I've investigated the choices and Dept. A appears to be the best option.

Dept. B has a requirement in their handbook that says the PhD candidate must
complete 9 hours ON CAMPUS in each of 2 consecutive semesters. This is
untenable for me. They are asking me to be a full time college student for
two semesters to get started and that's unacceptable.

Dept. A on the other hand does not have the on-campus
requirement. Further they have an on-line Masters program that might
facilitate with the completion of course work for the breadth requirement.

After reading through the degree requirements for both Dept. A and B I came
away thinking that the Dept. A program had less "hoops" then the Dept. B program.

thanks

***********************************
From a working professional:

Subject Re: Fw: Completing educational degrees

Joan,

These are the two things that work around the rules:

1. Waive GRE general test
2. Take the class as reading course or independent study if the class is
scheduled at the time that I can't make.

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Some examples of special programs:

CU's Leeds School of Business Evening MBA program
Regis on-line MBA program

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From an IBM Research VP:

"new focus on educating current/future students in the area of services"

"current workforce would benefit form more formal training in [services]"

"skills"

***********************************

Grady Booch speaking about off-shoring software engineering jobs
(approximately) "Where will the next generation of IT architects do
their apprenticeships?"

***********************************

Proposed mission statement of the CSU ISTeC EAC task group co-chaired by
Prof. Michael A. De Miranda and IBM Fellow Joan L. Mitchell:

Examine generic/CSU/Department Graduate School requirements and make
recommendations for additional flexibility to better meet the needs of
industry for professionals with at least 1/2/5 years of professional
experience retraining and completing advanced degrees.

Consensus mission statement:
***********************************
Assumptions:

Industrial scholarship programs that allow traditional full-time
on-campus schooling are outside this scope.

"Cheap" degrees are useless.

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Barrier - GREs
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Barrier - Fixed application dates
***********************************
Barrier - Fixed admission dates
***********************************
Barrier - Start to finish maximum time
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Barrier - Class attendance requirements
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Barrier - Unexpected business trips
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Barrier - Family needs
***********************************
Barrier - Residency requirements
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Category: Full-time working professionals with Corporate Sponsorship:
***********************************
Category: Part-time working professionals with Corporate Sponsorship:
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Category: Consultants (i.e. self-employeed):
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Category: Unemployed (e.g. recently laid-off)
Unemployment payments forbid being student
***********************************
Category: Retirees who are completing degrees
***********************************
Category: Retirees who are switching fields to pursue dream/passion
***********************************
Category: Retirees who aren't sure
***********************************
Idea: Give course credit for teaching
(i.e. swap salary/honorarium for tuition)
***********************************
Idea: GRE required a year later if progress not satisfactory
***********************************

Dr. Joan L. Mitchell
IBM Fellow, Master Inventor,
Member IBM Academy of Technology
joanm@us.ibm.com
(303) 924-4271; 8-263-4271
Fax: (303) 924-6667; 8-263-6667

Assistant, Katheryne Raile
(303) 924-7520; 8-263-7520